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Author Topic: Eternal Security - Can a True Believer Loose Salvation?  (Read 4333 times)
Daisy
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2010, 03:01:54 AM »

 scroll AMEN!
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Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2010, 08:24:37 AM »

Thank you, Caretaker. You're explanations are always welcome.

Why was Paul always mindful that he ran the race well and fought the good fight. If salvation was the only issue, he could have 'coasted' home. Paul wanted to do his Lord's work and receive his reward.
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ServantStrike
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2010, 09:59:14 AM »

Thank you, Caretaker. You're explanations are always welcome.

Why was Paul always mindful that he ran the race well and fought the good fight. If salvation was the only issue, he could have 'coasted' home. Paul wanted to do his Lord's work and receive his reward.

+1. That explanation really helped clear it up for me.

The other thing I think is that as believers, if we let Christ work in us, we aren't going to want to coast, we are going to want to do more. There is no greater feeling than knowing one is doing The Lord's work. Neglecting duties and/or cowering in the corner doesn't feel right (and it isn't).
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Chris

This hunger taking over my life
This thirst for heavenly ways
These eyes are filled with visions
This heart your dwelling place
Come reign here Holy Spirit
Bring forth a storm of change
Set our tongues ablaze with fire
Bring down Your heavenly glory
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2010, 10:14:07 AM »

Thank you, Caretaker. You're explanations are always welcome.

Why was Paul always mindful that he ran the race well and fought the good fight. If salvation was the only issue, he could have 'coasted' home. Paul wanted to do his Lord's work and receive his reward.

+1. That explanation really helped clear it up for me.

The other thing I think is that as believers, if we let Christ work in us, we aren't going to want to coast, we are going to want to do more. There is no greater feeling than knowing one is doing The Lord's work. Neglecting duties and/or cowering in the corner doesn't feel right (and it isn't).

God bless you;

After we come to Christ, and He is truly in our hearts, then we will experience the sanctification process,(which is a lifelong process while we sojourn away from our true Home in Glory), and this is the fruit of the Spirit production which will become more and more evident in our life. This is as we are being more and more conformed to His image.

Won't it be sad when some who spent their whole lives in a pew, lifelong members of a local church, hear those horrendous words, "Depart from me, I never knew you"?

Matt. 7:
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


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A servant of Christ,
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16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2010, 08:22:08 PM »


God bless you;

After we come to Christ, and He is truly in our hearts, then we will experience the sanctification process,(which is a lifelong process while we sojourn away from our true Home in Glory), and this is the fruit of the Spirit production which will become more and more evident in our life. This is as we are being more and more conformed to His image.

Won't it be sad when some who spent their whole lives in a pew, lifelong members of a local church, hear those horrendous words, "Depart from me, I never knew you"?

Matt. 7:
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


God bless you as well. God bless all of you  Smiley.

I agree, it's pretty sad that there are so many supposed "Christians" who have gone to church every Sunday for most of their lives and yet don't know Jesus, while at the same time there are even those outside the church who really do know Him. It's maddening.

I think a lot of people feel that since they spent time in the pew that God owes them one, but that's not how it works. I don't know what one can do for those people except pray for them though.
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Chris

This hunger taking over my life
This thirst for heavenly ways
These eyes are filled with visions
This heart your dwelling place
Come reign here Holy Spirit
Bring forth a storm of change
Set our tongues ablaze with fire
Bring down Your heavenly glory
Glory
WaitQuickly
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 10:56:31 PM »

Another topic that compliments this is http://www.worldofprophec...dex.php/topic,7358.0.html
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« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2010, 11:56:55 AM »

I will add to this post my view and share with you a devotional I did some time ago entitled “Assurance of Salvation” which is applicable to this very subject of, “Eternal Security: Can a True Believe Lose Salvation.”  The very words of Jesus in John 10:28, 29 succinctly tell us, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.”
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In your Christian experience, assurance that you are saved by faith in Jesus Christ is essential to the whole program of growth in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Thus, assurance of one’s salvation depends upon three aspect of their experience such as (1) understanding of the completeness of the salvation provided by Jesus Christ; (2) the confirming testimony of your Christian experience; and, (3) acceptance by faith of the Biblical promises of salvation. May I add these are God’s promises and because they are the promises from God, you can cling to them with the utmost assurance that what He says will most certainly be accomplished.  He has all the power, might, and wisdom in the universe at His disposal, and He will never have to make an excuse for failing to fulfill what He has promised. Thus, as it is written in the Scriptures, He has promised each one who has truly accepted His Son, Jesus Christ as Savior, they have eternal life.  To begin I will put forward some questions that people may ask, such as:

( 1 ) Do you possess the assurance of salvation?
( 2 ) Does that assurance grow to be a firm foundation for your entire life?
( 3 ) If you don't have the assurance of personal salvation in Jesus Christ, why not?
( 4 ) Is it because, as a child of God, you are slothful?
( 5 ) Have you fallen into an inconsistent, sinful walk of life?

( 6 ) Can you testify today to your own heart's satisfaction of the safety of your soul now and forever in Jesus Christ?

( 7 ) Are you assured of pardon?
( 8 ) Are you assured that you are one of His?

Do you ask yourself these questions? Can Christians lose their salvation? Can I be sure that I’m really saved? Most Christians have had moments of doubt regarding their salvation. After all, we have all entertained thoughts and have committed acts that we knew were displeasing to God. We’ve all experienced that sense of remorse and sometimes questioned the reality of our salvation afterwards. Backsliding can no doubt cause such feelings to arise, and should hopefully move us to repentance 1 John 1:9, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.
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The basis for our assurance is believing the truth about Jesus Christ (I John 2:2, 4; 2:15; 5:1), loving the brethren (I John 3:14, 18, 19, 4:7-8), and obeying Christ's commandments (I John 2:3-5). Assurance one is saved by faith in Christ is essential to their personal walk, service, and growth in Christ. This assurance is a matter of personal experience, relates to personal confidence, and depends upon the understanding that:

(1) When it comes to the issue of eternal security, the Bible makes it absolutely clear that those who have been saved will never be lost. Jesus emphatically pointed this out in the Gospel of John when, in reference to believers Jesus said, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand” - John 10:28-29. In this passage, Christ explicitly declared that no one who has received eternal life would ever lose it. Thus, the completeness of our salvation is provided for in Jesus Christ. Furthermore, in such passages as 2 Corinthians 1:22, “Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts” and Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise”. The apostle Paul indicated that the Holy Spirit acts as the very seal of God’s ownership of the believer; He serves as the guarantee of our inheritance to come – namely, eternal life *(John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I saw unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life”; 1 John 5:13). In describing our inheritance, the apostle Peter used some very powerful words – words like “imperishable,” “undefiled,” and “unfading” * 1 Peter 1:5, “Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time”). With these words, He underscored the everlasting assurance believers have with respect to God’s gift of salvation.
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(2) The confirming testimony of our personal experience. Our testimony of a new life in Christ is confirmed by a knowledge God is our Heavenly Father. Prayer that leads to assurance. Our ability to understand Scripture. A sense of the sinfulness of sin. A new love is realized for the unsaved. A new love is experienced for the saved. The manifestation of Christ’s “Love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance”, which represents a flood tide of reality on the plane of the limitless character of God. These combined experiences of the believer’s life bring a consciousness of salvation through faith in Christ.

(3) Acceptance by faith of the Biblical promises of salvation. Confidence the Bible is true and its promises of salvation will be fulfilled is essential to assurance of salvation. 1 John 5:13 assures us that assurance is given to every believer, carnal and spiritual alike, that they may know they have eternal life. This assurance is made to rest, not on a changeable experience, but upon those things written in the unchangeable Word of God (Psalm 119:89,160, “Forever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever”; Matthew 5:18; 24:35, “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away”; 1 Peter 1:23, 25, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth forever. But the word of the Lord endureth forever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you”
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We must have a clear understanding of what was accomplished by Jesus Christ in His death at Calvary. Salvation is not a work of man for God, but a work of God for man and depends completely upon divine grace without respect to any human merit. Understanding that Christ died for us and provided a totally complete salvation, which is offered to anyone who sincerely believes in Christ, can have assurance of his or her salvation. We must also understand that salvation is a gift, which cannot be earned or obtained by human effort. It cannot be deserved, and is available as a gift from God to all who believe on Jesus Christ (John 10:28), Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”). It is from Christ (John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me”), and is Christ indwelling the believer in the sense that eternal life is inseparable from Him (Colossians 1:27; 1 John 5:11, 12, “And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life”). Therefore, it is as eternal as He is eternal. Thus, the proper basis for assurance of salvation is provided, and the question resolves itself into the issue of whether one has really trusted in Jesus Christ.
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Further thoughts:

Doubting whether one has really committed to faith in Jesus Christ and the promises of God is very destructive to the believer, and doubting the faithfulness of God is fatal to any true experience of assurance. Some lack assurance of their own salvation because they are not sure God has actually received them and saved them. Looking for a change in their feelings rather than looking to the faithfulness of Christ usually causes this state of mind. Feelings and experiences have their place; however, the final evidence of personal salvation, which is unchanged by these, is the truthfulness and promises of God. What He has said, He will do, and it’s not pious or commendable for a person to distrust their salvation after having definitely accepted Jesus Christ. Our assurance depends upon understanding the nature of God’s complete salvation for those who have, Jesus Christ as their Savior. It’s most essential that a person realize that assurance of salvation depends upon the certainty of the promises of God and the certainty that the individual has committed by faith to Jesus Christ in keeping with these promises. Thus, if you have made this commitment and trusted Christ as your Savior, you can most assuredly rely upon the faithfulness of God, who cannot lie, to keep His promises, and to save you by His divine power and grace.



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1 John 5:11-12, "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life"
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« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 05:22:44 AM »

God bless you so very much. I just want to add a tremendous exegesis by Brother Dave to this thread:


To me, this passage:

Hebrews 10:29
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

This is cause for celebration: Why? "the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified". Was sanctified. Past tense. As in, "already sanctified". How so? Go back a few verses:

Hebrews 10:9-10
10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

We are sanctified, by the blood of the covenant, the blood of our Lord, once for all. As in, his blood is PROOF that we are forgiven, proof of His Grace. This is what you/we, as a Christian believe in, trust in, that His grace , His mercy, is sufficient to cover ALL sins.

To believe otherwise is to say that His blood, his sacrifice, was insufficient. As just enough to cover me til I believed, but after that I'm on my own.
To believe that is heartbreaking, because it is simply not true. The part that people get hung up on:

Hebrews 10:26
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I submit that all sin is willful. Any sin that you recognize as such is deliberate, there's no such thing as accidental sin. Your actions are your own. And that's what the Law shows us, what its there for, to show us that WE ARE NOT God, that we can't be like Him through our efforts, through trying to NOT sin, that the only way to be with Him is through His mercy and grace. And if you think that God is holding your sins against you, then this is all you have to look forward to:

Hebrews 10:27
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

But you believed in His grace once, believe til the end.

Hebrews 10:38-39
10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We say "Trust God, have faith in God, believe God, etc", but I say be more specific. Trust in what God has already done for you, have faith that what He did was sufficient, believe that what He did proves that He loves you, that there is no more enmity between you. Trust in Him and enter His rest, right now, no need to wait for Heaven, He is with you right now.
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1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2011, 11:40:04 AM »

 - Security of One’s Salvation –

I will add to this post my view and share with you why I believe in eternal security of one’s salvation. While most believers in Jesus Christ accept the doctrine that they can have assurance of salvation at any given moment in their experience, the question is often raised, “Can a person once saved become lost again?”

Many who oppose the doctrine of eternal security do so on the ground that it’s possible for a person to have intellectual faith without actually being saved. Adherents to eternal security agree that a person can experience a superficial conversion or outward change in his/her life, may go through the outer motions of accepting Christ such as joining a church or being baptized, and even experience a measure of change in his/her life pattern, yet still fall short of real salvation in Jesus Christ. While it’s impossible to lay down binding rules on how to distinguish one who is saved from one who is not saved, obviously in the mind of God there is no question. An individual believer must first of all make sure that he/she has really received Christ as Savior. It’s helpful in this regard to understand that receiving Christ is an act of the will which may involve some knowledge of the way of salvation and may be expressed emotionally to some extent, but the fundamental question remains: (1) Have I really received Jesus Christ by faith as my personal Savior? Until this question is honestly faced, there can, of course, be no ground for eternal security and no real assurance of salvation. Many who deny eternal security are merely saying that superficial faith is not enough to save. Adherents to eternal security agree on this point. The question properly stated is whether one who is actually saved and has received eternal life can lose that which God had done in saving him/her from sin.
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The ultimate answer to the insecurity or security of the believer rests on the question of who does the work of salvation. The concept that a believer who is once truly saved is always saved is based on the principle that salvation is the work of God not resting on any merit in the believer and not sustained by any effort of the believer. If man does the saving, it is insecure. If it is a work of God, it is secure. The solid scriptural basis for believing that a person once saved is always saved is supported by at least twelve important arguments. Four of these works relate to the Father, four to the Son, and four to the Holy Spirit.

A. The Work of the Father in Salvation.

(1) Scripture reveals the sovereign promise of God which is unconditional and which promises eternal salvation to everyone who believes in Christ (John 3:16; 5:24; 6:37). Obviously what God promises He is able to do, and His unchangeable will is revealed in Romans 8:29-30.

(2) The infinite power of God is able to save and keep eternally (John 10:29; Romans 4:21; 8:31, 38-39; 14:4; Ephesians 1:19-21; 3:20; Philippians 3:21; 2 Timothy 1:12; Hebrews 7:25; Jude 24). God clearly not only has the fidelity to fulfill His promise but the power to accomplish anything He wills to do. Scripture reveals that He wills the salvation of those who believe in Christ.

(3) The infinite love of God not only accounts for God’s eternal purpose but assures that His purpose will be fulfilled (John 3:16; Romans 5:7-10; Ephesians 1:4). In Romans 5:8-11 the love of God for those who are saved is said to be greater than His love for those who are unsaved, and this assures their eternal security. The argument is simple: if He loved men enough to give His Son to die for them when they were “sinners” and “enemies,” He will love them “much more” when through redeeming grace they are justified in His sight and reconciled to Him. The surpassing love of God for those whom He has redeemed at such infinite cost is sufficient assurance that He will never allow them to be plucked out of His hand until every resource of His infinite power has been exhausted (John 10:28-29); and, of course, the infinite power of God can never be exhausted. The promise of the Father, the infinite power of the Father, and the infinite love of the Father make it impossible for one who has once committed himself to God the Father by faith in Jesus Christ ever to lose the salvation which God has wrought in his life.

(4) The righteousness of God also assures the eternal security of those who have trusted in Christ because the demands of God’s righteousness have been completely met by the death of Christ in that He died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). God is forgiving sin and promising eternal salvation is acting on perfectly righteous grounds. God in saving the sinner is not doing so on the ground of leniency and is perfectly righteous in forgiving sin, not only for those in the Old Testament who lived before the cross of Christ but for all who live after the cross of Christ (Romans 3:25-26). Accordingly, the eternal security of the believer cannot be challenged without challenging the righteousness of God. Thus, His faithfulness to His promises, His infinite power, His infinite love, and His infinite righteousness combine to give the believer absolute security in his/her salvation.
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B. The Work of the Son

(1) The substitutionary death of Jesus Christ on the cross is the absolute guarantee of the believer’s security. The death of Christ is the sufficient answer to the condemning power of sin (Romans 8:34). When it is claimed that the saved one might be lost again, that claim is usually based on the fact of possible sin. Such an assumption of necessity proceeds on the supposition that Christ has not borne all the sins the believer will ever commit, and that God, having saved a soul, might be disappointed and surprised by unexpected, subsequent sin. On the contrary, the omniscience of God is perfect. He foreknows every sin or secret thought that will ever darken the life of His child, and for those sins the sufficient, sacrificial blood of Christ has been shed and by that blood God has been propitiated (1 John 2:2). Because of that blood which avails for the sins of both saved and unsaved, God is as free to continue His saving grace toward the meritless as He is to save them at all. He keeps them forever; not for their sakes alone, but to satisfy His own love and manifest His own grace (Romans 5:8; Ephesians 2:7-10). It is because of the fact that salvation and safekeeping depend only on the sacrifice and merit of the Son of God that all condemnation is forever removed (John 3:18; 5:24; Romans 8:1; 1 Corinthians 11:31-21).

(2) The resurrection of Christ as God’s seal upon the death of Christ secures the resurrection and the life for the believers (John 3:16; 10:28; Ephesians 2:6). Two vital facts connected with the resurrection of Christ make the eternal security of the believer sure. The gift of God is eternal life (Romans 6:23, and this life is the resurrection life of Christ (Colossians 2:12; 3:1). This life is eternal as Christ is eternal and is just as incapable of dissolution or destruction as Christ is incapable of dissolution or destruction. In the resurrection of Christ through baptism of the Spirit and receiving eternal life, a child of God is also made a part of the new creation. As a sovereign object of God’s creative work, the creature cannot reverse the creation process, and because he is in Christ as the Last Adam he cannot fall because Christ could no fall. While failures in the Christian life and experience are all too evident, these do not affect the position of the believer in Christ which is holy because of the grace of God and the death and resurrection of Christ.

(3) The work of Christ as our advocate in heaven also assures our eternal security (Romans 8:34; Hebrews 9:24; 1 John 2:1). In His work as the advocate or legal representative of the believer, Christ pleads the sufficiency of His work on the cross as a basis both for propitiation, or satisfaction of all God’s demands on the sinner, and as affecting reconciliation, or the reconciliation of the sinner to God through Christ. Since the work of Christ is perfect, the true believer can rest in the security of the perfection of the work of Christ presented as it is by Jesus Christ as the believer’s representative in heaven.

(4) The Work of Christ as out intercessor supplements and confirms His work as our advocate (John 17:1-26; Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:23-25). The present ministry of Christ in glory has to do with the eternal security of those on earth who are saved. Christ both intercedes and serves as our advocate. As intercessor, He has in view the weakness, ignorance, and immaturity of the believer – things concerning which there is no guilt. In this ministry Christ not only prays for His own who are in the world and at every point of their need (Luke 22:31-21; John 17:9, 15, 20; Romans 8:34), but on the grounds of His own sufficiency in His unchanging priesthood, He guarantees that they will be kept saved forever (John14:19; Romans 5:10; Hebrews 7:25). Taken as a whole, the work of Christ in His death, resurrection, advocacy, and intercession provides absolute security for the one who is thru represented by Christ both on the cross and in heaven. If salvation is a work of God for man rather than a work of man for God, its outcome is certain and sure and the promise of John 5:24 that the believer “shall not come into condemnation” will certainly be fulfilled.
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C. The Work of the Holy Spirit

(1) The work of regeneration or new birth in which the believer partakes of the divine nature is an irreversible process and the work of God (John 1:13; 3:3-6; Titus 3:4-6; 1 Peter 1:23; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:9). Just as there is no reversal of the creation process, there can be no reversing of the new birth process. If this is accomplished by God and not by man and is entirely on the principle of grace, there is no just ground or reason why it should not continue forever.

(2) The indwelling presence of the Spirit in the present age is a permanent possession of the believer (John 7:37-39; Romans 5:5; 8:9; 1 Corinthians 2:12; 6:19; 1 John 2:27). In ages preceding the day of Pentecost not all true believers were indwelt by the Spirit even though they were secure in their salvation; yet in the present age the fact that the body of a believer, even though sinful and corrupt, is the temple of God is another confirming evidence of the unswerving purpose of God to finish what He has begun in saving the believer. While the Spirit may be grieved by unconfessed sin (Ephesians 4:30) and may be quenched in the sense that He is resisted (1 Thessalonians 5:19), it is never intimated that these acts cause a Christian to love his/her salvation. It is rather that the very fact of his/her salvation and the continued presence of the Holy Spirit in his/her heart is made the grounds for an appeal to return to a walk and fellowship in conformity to the will of God.

(3) The work of the Spirit in baptism by which the believer is joined to Christ and to the body of Christ eternally is another evidence for security. By the Spirit’s ministry in baptizing, the believer is joined to that body of which Christ is the Head (1 Corinthians 6:17; 12:13; Galatians 3:27) and he is therefore said to be in Christ. To be in Christ constitutes a union which is both vital and abiding. In that union, old things – as to position and relationship which might be the ground of condemnation – are passed away, and all positions and relationships have become new and are of God (2 Corinthians 5:17-18). Being accepted for ever “in the beloved,” the child of God is as secure as the One in whom he is and in whom he stands.

(4) The presence of the Holy Spirit in the believer is said to be the seal of God which will endure until the day of redemption, the day of the translation or resurrection of the believer (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30). Since this sealing of the Holy Spirit is a work of God and signifies the safety and security of the one thus sealed until God completes His purpose to present the believer faultless in heaven, it is another evidence that a believer once saved is always saved. Taken as a whole, the eternal security of the believer rests upon the nature of salvation. It is a work of God, not a work of man. It rests on the power and faithfulness of God not on strength or faithfulness of man. If salvation were by works or if salvation were a reward for faith as a good work, it is understandable how a man’s security might be in question. Because it rests instead upon grace and the promises and works of God, the believer can be assured of his/her security and, with Paul, “confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).
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Concluding thoughts:

Doubting whether one has really committed to faith in Jesus Christ and the promises of God is very destructive to the believer, and doubting the faithfulness of God is fatal to any true experience of assurance. Some lack assurance of their own salvation because they are not sure God has actually received them and saved them. Looking for a change in their feelings rather than looking to the faithfulness of Christ usually causes this state of mind. Feelings and experiences have their place; however, the final evidence of personal salvation, which is unchanged by these, is the truthfulness and promises of God. What He has said, He will do, and it’s not pious or commendable for a person to distrust their salvation after having definitely accepted Jesus Christ. Our assurance depends upon understanding the nature of God’s complete salvation for those who have, Jesus Christ as their Savior. It’s most essential that a person realize that assurance of salvation depends upon the certainty of the promises of God and the certainty that the individual has committed by faith to Jesus Christ in keeping with these promises. Then it may be concluded from this extensive body of truth that the eternal purpose of God which is for the preservation of His own can never be defeated. To this end He has met every possible hindrance. Sin which might otherwise separate us has been borne by a Substitute who, in order that the believer may be kept, pleads the efficacy of His death before the throne of God. The believer’s will is held under divine control (Philippians 2:13), and every testing is tempered by the infinite grace and wisdom of God (1 Corinthians 10:13). Thus, if you have made this commitment and truly trusted Jesus Christ as your Savior, you can most assuredly rely upon the faithfulness of God, who cannot lie, to keep His promises, and to save you by His divine power and grace.
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And for the record, I accept as truth according to and based upon the work of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, that a believer’s salvation is eternally secure.
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1 John 5:11-12, "And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life"
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I CORDIALLY INVITE YOU TO VISIT MY BLOG @ www.hiseternalword.wordpress.com
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« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2011, 12:57:38 PM »

I think the problem is logical, it should not the question if cant loose salvation, because the concept i not biblica,, but in the contrary, the question should be if can be the case that someone thinks is salved and is not, (since salvation is given by God, and not by a personal desition ) because werent this ones that Jesus mentiones sure about their salvation? = "
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


"Why do you keep calling me 'Lord, Lord,' but don't do what I tell you? luk 6:46
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. jm1:22
[quotephil 3 ]That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. [/quote]
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« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2013, 11:02:00 PM »

Peter Goodgame.  (a good friend of mine)  He got into the charismatic movement a few years ago and claimed he did not subscribe to their legalistic salvation doctrine but little by little he has edged toward the Jesus will dump you like the trash if you mess up doctrine of the oneness dudes and other charismatics.  I have been razzing him lately.  A while ago I said on his facebook page that his endtimes research is totally cutting edge but I thought he got his salvation doctrine from an all night liquidation sale at bad doctrine mart (a non union store BTW)  He accused me of getting my once saved always saved doctrine from the "cheap grace" store just down the street.....

At which I proudly stated that I got my salvation doctrine from Tom Peterson's summer sale where: "FREE IS A VERY GOOD PRICE!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwZ80FEEZQo

Pete responded: "I don't know what to say.  But the haircut is pretty cool I have to admit."

Johnny
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Johnny the Longshoreman
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2013, 01:20:24 AM »

Hello Johnny, good to see you. I don't have to go to the store, when I already have a whole warehouse full of truth when I pick up God's Word. I have His Word on it and I don't have to go looking into flavor of the month experiences.

So often certain groups elevate what they experience to a level of what is written. I was just reminded of how the senses can be deceptive, and a bit of a quote from when Scrooge is first addressing the ghost of Marley, ""You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!"

The Word of God declares that the unpardonable sin is denial of Christ. Those who have truly received Christ will not truly deny Him. Jesus declared that those who are His are in the Father's Hand and none can pluck them out.
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A servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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IN thee O Lord do I put my trust


« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2013, 05:16:15 AM »

I love those verses Caretaker!

John 6....IN the words of Jesus! Amen



37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.





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Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2013, 08:55:08 AM »

From what I understand is if someone say for example who used to be a devoted Christian pastor but then decided to become a Muslim, he would have lost his Salvation because he is then denying Christ died for our sins... "IF" he never turns back to God before he dies! Or maybe he was never truly saved to begin with because if he were then God would've compelled him to come back to him....  Huh

 feedback
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white tiger

Did you never run for shelter in a storm, and find fruit which you expected not? Did you never go to God for safeguard, driven by outward storms, and there find unexpected fruit?

—John Owen
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2013, 02:38:31 PM »

From what I understand is if someone say for example who used to be a devoted Christian pastor but then decided to become a Muslim, he would have lost his Salvation because he is then denying Christ died for our sins... "IF" he never turns back to God before he dies! Or maybe he was never truly saved to begin with because if he were then God would've compelled him to come back to him....  Huh

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1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

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A servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2013, 07:24:27 PM »

From what I understand is if someone say for example who used to be a devoted Christian pastor but then decided to become a Muslim, he would have lost his Salvation because he is then denying Christ died for our sins... "IF" he never turns back to God before he dies! Or maybe he was never truly saved to begin with because if he were then God would've compelled him to come back to him....  Huh

 feedback

1 John 2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.



Thanks CT for reminding me of those scriptures!  Smiley
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white tiger

Did you never run for shelter in a storm, and find fruit which you expected not? Did you never go to God for safeguard, driven by outward storms, and there find unexpected fruit?

—John Owen
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Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.