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Author Topic: Martin Luther believed the Book of Rev."not prophetic" and"jesus not known on it  (Read 263 times)
kaijuu
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« on: February 10, 2012, 10:46:40 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation
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In the 16th century, Martin Luther initially considered it to be "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and stated that "Christ is neither taught nor known in it",and placed it in his Antilegomena, i.e. his list of questionable documents,

Its interesting to think, what if all the influent people of that time, considered this revealing (as the title says it so) and important book, to be a questionable document, and we did not ever come to know about it?¿?

but the most curious part of this story is that:
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though he did retract this view in later life.

who many of us had the chance to retract for a mistake of perception??¿?
I have to admit, that the first time I read it, I did not got nothing clear from it, neither even know Jesus was on it.
but how could have been different if even Martin Luther did not understood it from the begining.

I think that is like the parable of Jeuss, is better a bad begining and a good ending, than a good begining and a bad ending.
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Sam
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 06:30:02 PM »

Some Church of Christ folks also credit Martin Luther for not having musical instruments in church. Take it all with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2012, 10:12:11 AM »

From what I can study, Martin Luther changed in his viewpoint in regards to Jacob/the Jews. In his latter days and teachings he became very anti-Semitic. I wonder if this intrinsic animosity in the founder of the Lutheran denomination could have had an influence in the German Churches' response to National Socialism and the support for the persecution of the Jews?

http://www.humanitas-inte...documents/luther-jews.htm

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I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that those miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews and who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

Grace and peace in the Lord. Dear sir and good friend, I have received a treatise in which a Jew engages in dialog with a Christian. He dares to pervert the scriptural passages which we cite in testimony to our faith, concerning our Lord Christ and Mary his mother, and to interpret them quite differently. With this argument he thinks he can destroy the basis of our faith.

This is my reply to you and to him. It is not my purpose to quarrel with the Jews, nor to learn from them how they interpret or understand Scripture; I know all of that very well already........

........So long an essay, dear sir and good friend, you have elicited from me with your booklet in which a Jew demonstrates his skill in a debate with an absent Christian. He would not, thank God, do this in my presence! My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen.

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A servant of Christ,
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1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2012, 10:22:13 AM »

One thing to keep in mind is that Jacob/Israel had ceased to exist as a nation in 70 AD, and they were scattered among the Gentile nations. In the minds and understanding of the old theologians Jacob/Israel was done and the prophetic yet to be fulfilled could only be done so by the Church. This is the root of Replacement of Israel by the Church.

There is from May 1948, an entity that is Nation Jacob/Israel. This entity inhabits Jerusalem, and can fulfill the prophecies yet to come. They are an entity separate from the Church, the Bride of Christ, and can look upon He whom they have pierced upon His triumphant return:

Zech. 12:
6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;
14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

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A servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2012, 02:31:06 PM »


He was a man, and like all of us had his thoughts and theologies to contend with for sure, as the Lord worked a great work in him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Bible
The Luther Bible




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Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
kaijuu
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2012, 09:05:30 AM »

yeas that was the point, but after so many time we can see it clearly after all the information we have on that regard, but persons has many ideas and postures along time, and to the moment we could hardly tell how wrong we are under sertain askects of what we call knowledge. I think thats why solom said that even trying to gather knowledge was vanity, one cant be sure of knowledge. Maybe thats why the most important parts of the bible are subjet to faith rather than the need of a big knowledge.

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kaijuu
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2012, 09:06:58 AM »

Some Church of Christ folks also credit Martin Luther for not having musical instruments in church. Take it all with a grain of salt.

but they had tubular organs,  Wink
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summer
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did i jest see a angle


« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2012, 01:29:08 PM »

Good point  Kajiuu?Huh duh
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kaijuu
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2012, 04:03:25 PM »

Good point  Kajiuu?Huh duh

I dont find it possible to qualify it  Undecided
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