Rick Warren/Purpose Driven Expose' Thread

[chatty-kathi]

For anyone that hasn't visited the website, In Plain Site, this image is posted on their home page, http://www.inplainsite.or.../rick_warren_new_age.html . 

2 Peter 2:1, 2, But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

[Whrose]

Great wolf post, sis.

  Between you and ST, we all will have one impenetrable Shield of FAITH!  

Very cool picture!!! Says it all 

[chatty-kathi]

There is a short video by John MacArthur called "MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life" at Christian Research Network.  The link for the video is http://christianresearchnetwork.com/ .

The video discusses the “easy believism” presented in The Purpose Driven Life, which is really not the gospel because it is missing key ingredients.

[SoftTouch]

This is a pretty long article so I’ll just give the Intro here along with the topics that are covered:

The Dangerous Direction of Rick Warren

Heritage of Faith

July 6, 2008

Just before his death, Francis Schaeffer wrote The Great Evangelical Disaster.  In it he warned of mainline evangelicalism’s accommodation with theological liberalism and evolution.  According to Schaeffer, the evangelical church had become a disaster, namely, by fearing to stand on the truth and contend for the faith!  This trend continues as spiritual peril and confusion spread throughout America and the world.  Discernment toward doctrinal error seems non-existent and the Biblical doctrine of separation from unbelievers, false teachers, and disobedient brothers is neither mentioned nor practiced.

It is my conviction that spiritual disaster is being currently promoted by Rick Warren, sometimes called “America’s Pastor.” It is my intention to look at God’s Word in light of Warren’s own words and actions so that you can see for yourself the dangers of his pastoral direction to thousands of others churches and pastors.

You might say, “Why is this important for us in NYC?”  Well, for a number of reasons.  First, Rick Warren has influenced over 500,000 churches with his Church Growth Conference and The Purpose Driven Church.  He has further influenced nearly every Christian home in America with The Purpose Driven Life.  His influence is now coming to New York City as he partners with a new initiative called, “New York City Leadership Center” and is speaking in a launching event by using his “Forty Days of Purpose” ideology.  This partnership includes mega church pastor Bill Hybels and also a New Age promoter and sympathizer Ken Blanchard, along with some of the most well known churches in New York City: Christian Cultural Center, Calvary Baptist Church, and Bethel Gospel Tabernacle.  It is imperative that we consider Scriptural admonitions regarding such cooperative efforts.  I must issue a warning that the great evangelical disaster Francis Schaeffer warned of is moving in fast forward, and I am not going to be a part of it!  I pray that you will stand firmly on the truth as well.

Let me say that I am for unity and love, but this unity must be founded upon doctrinal truth.  Jesus Himself said, “To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.  Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice” (John 18:37).  Jesus did not unify with the Jewish religious establishment of his day, or with the Roman political power.  Rather, they crucified Him.  Jesus Himself teaches us that His truth is paramount to any unity of man.

Let’s start with Rick Warren’s vision and understanding of his relationship to the church today.  He has said,

“I’m looking for a second reformation. The first reformation of the church 500 years ago was about beliefs.  This one is going to be about behavior.  The first one was about creeds.  This one is going to be about deeds.  It is not going to be about what does the church believe, but about what is the church doing.”   “I am working toward a second Reformation of the church which could create a Third Great Awakening in our nation or world.”

As Warren perceives himself to be akin to the Reformer Martin Luther or Jonathan Edwards, there are a number of frightening aspects to this statement, the first being:

1. Rick Warren Devalues Sound Doctrine

2. Rick Warren Ignores Separating from Unbelievers, Modernists, and even Terrorist Supporting States

3. Rick Warren Promotes New Age Spirituality

4. Rick Warren Associates with False Prophets

5. Rick Warren Uses Perversions of Scripture and pretends they are True

6. Rick Warren Wrongly Divides the Scripture
 
(Click on blue link at top to read article/sermon)

[Caretaker]

God bless you ((((((((Sis)))))))))));

It is such a blessing to have this information gathered and available. I have tended to see where our members and guests have been reading and posting, the last few days, and several times the guests were printing-out specific articles. WOP is like a Christian End-Times library, and with the dedicated efforts of Watchmen they can so often find the latest information available.

WTG Sis, and each of our Brethren!!!!!!!!

[SoftTouch]

From this weeks Cutting Edge Newsletter:

I. Rick Warren is now catering to the Gay-Lesbian crowd!

NEWS BRIEF: "Gay dads celebrate Father’s Day with Rick Warren, author of 'The Purpose Driven Life' ", Kimolsen News, June 7, 2008

"This Father’s Day, a group of LGBT and straight-ally families will spend their holiday in a way that is both extraordinary and profoundly commonplace: they will attend services at Saddleback Church, the mega-church founded by Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life. The following day, the families will join leaders from Saddleback Church for a private meal and conversation."

If you are surprised that a "Christian" church like Saddleback could join hands with Gays, Lesbians, and Transgendered people under the sponsorship of Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Church", you have not read the book shown at the left, "Rebuilding The Tower of Babel". Cutting Edge's author, Mac Dominick, proves that Warren's hidden agenda for his church is to spiritually rebuild the Tower of Babel, the tower which God cursed and destroyed!

Yet, Warren intends to have his people spiritually rebuild this pagan tower. If Paganism rules Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Plan", then we should not be too surprised that part of this pagan program is to reach out to one of the ultimate pagan practices of all-time, the Gay, Lesbian, Transgender group. Later in this article, we learn that Warren arranged this meeting in participation with a gay clergy advocacy group, "The American Family Outing", which specifically reaches out to apostate Christian Churches.

In fact, Rick Warren was the last of six Evangelical mega-church leaders to host a meeting in connection with "The American Family Outing". The other five church leaders who are cooperating with this gay advocacy group are:

1) Joel Osteen, pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas - Visited Friday, May 9 - Sunday, May 11, 2008 (Mother's Day Weekend)

2) Bishop T.D. Jakes and The Potter's House in Dallas, Texas - Visited May 16 - Sunday, May 18, 2008

3) Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr. and Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, Maryland -- Visited May 23 - Sunday, May 25, 2008 (Memorial Day Weekend)

4) Bishop Eddie Long and New Birth Missionary Baptist Church in Lithonia, Georgia (near Atlanta) - Visited Friday, May 30 - Sunday, June 1, 2008

5) Bill Hybels and Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Illinois (near Chicago) - Visited Friday, June 6 - Sunday, June 8, 2008

If you are a member of any of these churches, or are a reader of any of their materials, you know now that their spiritual fruits are horrific to the core; you will know instantly that these men are "wolves in sheep's clothing", and not genuine Christians at all. The Bible is so clear about how angry God is over the sin of homosexuality that I am not even going to list the Scriptures here.

But, I feel the need to list some of the warnings that Christians are to "SEPARATE" themselves from evil doers and their despicable deeds:

"Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." [2 Cor 6:17]

"I then heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out from her, my people, so that you may not share in her sins, neither participate in her plagues." [Jesus speaking from Heaven, Revelation 18:4; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]

Note this sobering threat from Jesus Himself that the person who does NOT separate from the evil around him will "participate in the plagues" of judgment coming upon the ungodly. We shall return to this subject later on, but for now, understand that your participation in an event like these may result in devastating judgment upon you, even if your motives are pure!

"Sanctify them [purify, consecrate, separate them for Yourself, make them holy] by Truth; Your Word is Truth. And so for their sake, and on their behalf, I sanctify ... Myself that they also may be sanctified in the Truth." [John 17:17-19; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]

Here, Jesus is praying to His Father to "separate" genuine believers and make them holy by Biblical Truth. Whenever a church leader allows a Gay, Lesbian, Transgender group to come to the platform for a service, in order to advocate their goals, that leader is placing the sanctioning influence of his church behind that group! That is just human nature and that is exactly how it works.

"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." [2 John 1:10-11]

We are supposed to separate from unbelievers, or from people who hold to a radically different "doctrine" as taught by the Apostles, to the extreme point of not letting them even come into your home! Jesus repeats this idea of separation from sin -- is there any greater sin than misleading people spiritually, so they will fall to their utter ruin -- but Jesus accompanies His urging to separate with a warning of Judgment.

"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." [Rev 18:4]

Since the judgments pronounced upon the False Prophet in the Book of Revelation are very severe, we can see that, by identifying with the False Prophet and/or his evil system, people will be " partakers of her sins" and receiving the same plagues of Judgment foretold against the False Prophet. People instinctively understand that, when another person is ill with a highly contagious disease, that person needs to be separated from healthy individuals so that the disease cannot spread. However, too many people and their blind spiritual guides do not apply this same concept to spiritual matters. In the early 1950's, a new group arose calling itself "New Evangelicals" who stated that, while they would remain Orthodox in Theology, they would stop separating from unbelievers and/or apostate churches; rather, they would "infiltrate" these ranks, carrying the Gospel of Jesus Christ with them, and get these organizations saved. The world is now 50 years past this point, and the results are too clear to miss: the rank unbelievers and apostate Christians have given their disease to the New Evangelicals!

The situation is so bad even the New Age adherents can see the truth. New Age author Jeremy Rifkin made a very shocking statement almost 10 years ago. He predicted that Evangelical churches would be the chief instrument to bring the New World Order to birth! ["The Emerging Order", Page x-xi]

The apostasy of which the Apostle Paul spoke of as being a requirement before Antichrist can arise is now at hand. It is deep, and wide and high enough to bring the Man of Sin to the world scene. Can you hear the approaching hoofbeats of the Riders of the Apocalypse?

(End Article)

[chatty-kathi]

From the Cutting Edge Newsletter:

The situation is so bad even the New Age adherents can see the truth. New Age author Jeremy Rifkin made a very shocking statement almost 10 years ago. He predicted that Evangelical churches would be the chief instrument to bring the New World Order to birth! ["The Emerging Order", Page x-xi]

Actually, this was prophesied by Alice Bailey long before that.  At this link, http://www.christiananswe...en/mysticism-bennett.html is the article “Can Mysticism Lead to God?”  Richard Bennett tells us:
 

"The goal of the New Age Movement has consistently been to bring in the Age of Aquarius when all will recognize 'the God with themselves.' A major step towards this in the words of the New Age prophetess Alice Bailey, is 'the regeneration of the churches.' Her vision was that... 'The Christian church in its many branches can serve as a St. John the Baptist, as a voice crying in the wilderness, and as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished.' In a word, she desired the time when the 'Christian churches' would embrace the New Age concepts of illumination and self-realization. The New Age plan to bring in world peace cannot fully establish the Golden Age of Aquarius until Biblical Christianity is outlawed or destroyed."

The coming delusion is a judgment from God.  In the following two passages from Scripture, we see revealed that the coming delusion from II Thess. 2:11 is the New Age Movement, which teaches man and all of creation is God.  This judgment also includes the dishonoring of their bodies because of unnatural affections.  We are now seeing both parts sweeping through the church, which means God’s wrath is about to be poured out.

The Romans passage reveals the lie, the worship of the creature and creation (pantheism and panentheism).  And it shows that homosexuality is the end result, thereby causing God to send His wrath: 

II Thess. 2:10, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Romans 1:18-25, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. 

[Barry]

Here's an interesting article that hits the nail on the head.

"Rick Warren Still Doesn't Get It?"

http://www.newswithviews....aulProctor/proctor156.htm

RICK WARREN STILL DOESN'T GET IT?

 

By Paul Proctor

July 30, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

OneNewsNow.com recently reported the following in an article by Jim Brown titled Interfaith "cooperation" at Saddleback:

    California mega-church pastor Rick Warren says Christians should not be reticent to work with Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, and even atheists to cure societal problems.

    In conjunction with the presidential forum he is hosting next month at Saddleback Church, Pastor Rick Warren will convene an interfaith meeting for 30 Christian, Jewish and Muslim leaders "to discuss cooperation for the common good of all Americans."

Now I don't, for a minute, expect anyone outside the Body of Christ to appreciate the things of God, His sovereignty, His glory, His purpose, His Word or even the gospel. If you're a social worker - even a Christian working as a volunteer within a charitable, yet secular organization, you are to be commended for your service to society.

But the church was not established by Jesus Christ to partner with other world religions and beliefs to share God's glory with Allah, Joseph Smith, Buddha or Madeline Murray O'Hare. Neither were we called by Christ to bring their followers into the ministry with us. Those who have truly been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb ought to know better than this.

There is any number of popular preachers these days, both on and off TV, touting unbiblical notions to cheering crowds as if they were carrying out the Great Commission. Many of them, if not most, are convinced that their worldly success and the resulting fame and fortune they enjoy is evidence of God's approval and blessing.

The fanatical followers of these smooth talkers are so far from the truth and so taken by their preacher's voice, reasoning with them, even from the scriptures, is often like reasoning with an animal, which is why I believe Jesus said, in Matthew 7, verse 6: "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Have you ever tried to reason with someone's guard dog? He doesn't know right from wrong or truth from lie. He doesn't know or even care if his master is good or evil. All he knows is violence toward anyone who challenges the sovereignty and authority of the hand that feeds him.

It doesn't mean such followers should never hear the gospel - it just means, it is an exercise in futility to belabor the issue with someone in that state of mind. In such cases, I believe it is best to move on to others who are waiting and ready to receive the truth - someone who, in Matthew 10, Jesus called "worthy."

But then there are preachers like Rick Warren.

His theology gets so close to the truth without fully reaching it, many loyal followers find it difficult to discern the difference.

In Warren's ongoing attempt to scripturally justify his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan to professing Christians - described in the OneNewsNow.com article as, "an effort to mobilize churches around the world to combat what he calls the five 'global giants' of spiritual emptiness, corrupt leadership, poverty, disease and illiteracy," Warren is quoted as saying this:

    "When Jesus sent his disciples out [Matthew 10]...he said, 'When you go into a village, you find the man of peace,' and he said, 'If he accepts, and he's open, and he's receptive and he's willing to work with you, you start your ministry there,'" says Warren. "[But Jesus] said, 'If you don't find the man of peace, you dust the dust off your shoes and you go to the next village [be]cause you can always find someone that's willing to work with you,"

If the 'man of peace' accepts what exactly?

If he's open to what exactly?

If he's receptive to what exactly?

If he's willing to work with you to do what exactly?

And exactly what kind of ministry are we talking about here?

Any Christian, guided by the Holy Spirit, who actually reads Matthew Chapter 10, instead of just listening to Warren describe and define it himself, ought to be able see that what Jesus sent and empowered His disciples to do at that particular time and place in history - and whom He specifically sent them to, is in no way even remotely related to what Warren is enlisting his followers to accomplish alongside Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists, Jews, atheists and presumably whomever will get onboard his P.E.A.C.E. train.

They are distinctly different agendas given to distinctly different groups of participants at distinctly different times in history for distinctly different purposes.

Pastor Warren is reportedly gathering bodies - any willing bodies - to help him "cure societal problems" for the "common good."

Jesus Christ, on the other hand, is gathering saved souls to a Kingdom not of this world for God's Glory.

Big difference…

Furthermore, in Matthew 10, Jesus empowered and commanded his disciples to go specifically to the "lost sheep of Israel" to cast out demons, raise the dead, miraculously heal sickness and disease and preach to them that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand - meaning salvation had come - not go and "cure societal problems."

It was to supernaturally demonstrate that prophecy had been fulfilled before the eyes of those who knew and understood it - that their long-awaited Savior had finally arrived. Jesus was sending His disciples out at that particular time, not to the Gentiles, nor to the Samaritans, but to Jews only who knew and understood the scriptures of old and were looking for His coming.

Jesus did not send out just anyone who was willing to tag along to help "cure societal problems."

If that's all He was attempting to accomplish in Matthew 10, He was a miserable failure because, from what the Bible teaches, society's problems continued long after the disciples returned and, in fact, got a lot worse - especially for followers of Jesus.

So all the healing, casting out of demons and raising of the dead was to reveal God's miraculous power and presence. All Warren will be demonstrating with his ragtag roundup is man's power and presence - meaning his global shindig is just another brotherhood of man campaign designed to bring everyone together under the big tent of tolerance, diversity and unity where certain absolutes and convictions from scripture will be left at the door in order to keep the P.E.A.C.E.

And just how does that glorify Almighty God or His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, Who said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"?

It doesn't.

"Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds" - 2nd John 1: 9-11

That means we don't go into ministry with them either.

When the Christian church partners with Muslims, Mormons, Buddhists and atheists for a so-called "ministry," God is not glorified in the least because He will not share His glory with other gods.

In Acts 17:30 the Apostle Paul told those on Mars Hill who worshipped other dieties that "…the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent…"

The word "now" implies, since Jesus, the Living Word of God has come.

Well, Jesus is coming again and God still isn't winking.

So, if God isn't winking, why is Pastor Warren?

Did Jesus attempt to send out representatives from other religions and philosophies with His disciples in the 10th chapter of Matthew to help them with demonic spirits, miraculous healing, raising the dead and preaching?

Of course not!

Then why is Rick Warren trying to "unequally yoke" various world religions and even atheists into a social gospel "ministry" of good works?

Or, is he expecting them to help Christians proclaim Jesus Christ as the only way to eternal life?

If Pastor Warren is looking for some scripture reference to validate his Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan and upcoming sheep and goat gala, he'd better look somewhere other than Matthew Chapter 10.

"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD…" - Proverbs 15:8

[Whrose]

Have you ever tried to reason with someone's guard dog? He doesn't know right from wrong or truth from lie. He doesn't know or even care if his master is good or evil. All he knows is violence toward anyone who challenges the sovereignty and authority of the hand that feeds him.

It doesn't mean such followers should never hear the gospel - it just means, it is an exercise in futility to belabor the issue with someone in that state of mind. In such cases, I believe it is best to move on to others who are waiting and ready to receive the truth - someone who, in Matthew 10, Jesus called "worthy."

Well, the dogs are out and barking. There is no reasoning with them from a Christian perspective. They are in the Lords Hands!

We know who they are.

I agree, its time to move on and reach those who are ready and waiting to receive the Truth.

I pray those who are walking the dogs will heed the Words of our beloved Lord God
and repeated in the prayers of His Faithful Flock.

Revelation 18:4

18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[Pete]

EXCELLENT article Barry!!

Hope it lands on Warren's desk....  Unfortunately, it will probably land on deaf ears!!

That was well written and well reasoned from the Scriptures.  Clearly, Warren is way out of line!  May God have mercy on him.

Peace,

Pete

[chatty-kathi]

Understand the Times, http://www.understandthet...rg/inthenews/19_owr.shtml has an interesting commentary.  It compares Rick Warren’s upcoming interfaith conference about compassion with the Dalai Lama’s similar goals expressed in an article about compassion and global responsibility.  Here is an excerpt, emphasis added:

The following article about the Dalai Lama explains that his purpose in spending so much time in meditation is to promote compassion as the key to making planet earth a better place. This would mean working together with leaders of all religions in a cooperative effort.
 
This is very interesting in light of the fact that Pastor Rick Warren is holding a conference at Saddleback August 16, 2008 titled "Saddleback Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion."
 
Further, in an article we posted July 21 titled "McCain, Obama to Appear Together at California Megachurch", the following statement was made:

"In conjunction with the Civil Forum event, Warren will convene an interfaith meeting with about 30 Christian, Jewish and Muslim leaders to discuss joint projects that can benefit all Americans."

Notice the interesting common denominator with the two plans -  the Dalai Lama's plan and Rick Warren's plan - working together with all religions to benefit all.

From the Dalai Lama article:
 

For years, people have asked him exactly what he is meditating on. And for years, he has given them a one-word answer that is a primary tenet of Tibetan Buddhism: compassion.

Yet the word "compassion” for the Dalai Lama has come to symbolize something more than mere altruism on a local scale, but rather, on a global scale.

He then began to speak about his idea of global responsibility, which, he believes, begins not with laws or legislation, but with changing our fundamental view of the world.

This concept of universal similarities among humans, according to the Dalai Lama, must guide how we act on a global level. For example, he proposed the idea of the Americas joining together with a sense of unity, and the same for Europe.
 
Fittingly, the Dalai Lama reminded the audience that change, compassion and global responsibility begin with individuals, not just with the Dalai Lama.

[SoftTouch]

From the Lighthouse Trails Newsletter I got today:

PRESIDENTIAL FORUM - ABC Interview with Rick Warren: Warren Takes on His Critics

In an article dated August 15th by ABC news Senior National Correspondent (based in Washington, DC) Jake Tapper, Rick Warren is interviewed about his critics. Warren stated:

I'm a big target ... It doesn't bother me. It's like ... during the Civil War the guy who wore the Union blue top and the Confederate blue bottom and he got shot at from both sides. That's just part of trying to be a bridge builder, a moderator, a voice of civility. Our civilization is becoming increasingly uncivil. We're becoming ruder. We're not getting nicer to each other we're getting ruder.

Warren stated that because he represents both right and left, he gets criticism from both sides. This however, is an inaccurate statement for the most part, as there have been very few critical analyses toward Warren by the liberal side. On the contrary, there have been many positive ones. He has been a favorite guest for Larry King a number of times, and even popular New Ager Marianne Williamson has come to his defense (their common ground is mysticism), 1 as have many in the liberal emerging church.

Warren has often made these statements about "getting ruder," when he is discussing his critics. For the record, Lighthouse Trails Publishing (and Lighthouse Trails Research) has not been rude with regard to its reporting on Rick Warren. We have reported in a forthright manner without using mean-spirited, sarcastic, or acerbic language.

When Warren told Tapper regarding criticism, "It doesn't bother me," Tapper questioned this statement:

And it seems like it might bother you a little bit ... You are a huge success and your good works are undeniable and I'm not trying to take away from that. But I sense in this interview that these people get under your skin a little bit.

Tapper recognized that criticism does bother Rick Warren, as Warren has proven time and again with Lighthouse Trails, such as when he called Lighthouse Trails "evil" and "liars" and when Saddleback said that federal agents were investigating Lighthouse Trails because Saddleback suggested we had broken into their server (something that was never true).2

Warren answered Tapper:

(P)eople get under my skin for about five seconds. I consider both praise and criticism, it's kind of like chewing gum. You chew on it for a little while but you don't swallow because ultimately I'm living for Jesus Christ. That's my goal. And my philosophy when criticism comes at me, if it's true: listen and learn from it. If it's untrue ignore it and forget it.

This is not accurate when Warren says, "if it's true: listen and learn from it." Lighthouse Trails has been reporting that Rick Warren has been promoting the emerging church and contemplative spirituality for many years. We have shown this countless times through many well-documented articles and books. While Warren wrote a note to Lighthouse Trails once five years ago, calling contemplative "a hot topic," he has never shown any sign that he has learned from the criticisms and public concerns. On the contrary, he has moved closer to contemplative spirituality and the emerging new spirituality. (e.g., recently he had New Age sympathizer Leonard Sweet teach at Saddleback 3, and secondly, he recommends books on his website by outright mystics 4).

At the recent Presidential Forum at Saddleback, Warren stated: "We've got to learn to disagree without demonizing each other, and we need to restore civility." He has made this same statement before with regard to his critics. The insinuation in this statement is that those who criticize Rick Warren should not be doing so. But he is giving a false impression - many of his critics have given accurate and straightforward information about the teachings and beliefs of Rick Warren. As for Lighthouse Trails, we have not called him names, never said whether or not he is a Christian (leaving that up to God), have never threatened him or accused him of breaking into our server, and never said he was of the devil. And yet, Rick Warren's chief apologist recently wrote an article calling Warren's critics cult-like and delusional people who behave like David Koresh (Waco), who are heresy-hunters, paranoid, and extremists. 5

While millions hear the words of Rick Warren through both secular and Christian media and through Purpose Driven venues, and while many will believe what he says about his critics, Lighthouse Trails will continue to provide accurate information regarding the contemplative prayer movement and the emerging new spirituality that is quickly overtaking much of Christianity. As we have stated many times, we do so not to villanize those we critique but rather to warn the body of Christ that the Gospel is under attack through a mystical spirituality that says man is divine. The Bible says that there will be a time when false doctrine and apostasy will run rampant and as believers we are to speak up against these things for the sake of the body of Christ and the Gospel message that can save lost souls.

******

For solid documentation on Rick Warren's promotion of the new spirituality (i.e., contemplative and emerging), read A Time of Departing, Deceived on Purpose, and Faith Undone, or visit Lighthouse Trails Research Project.

(End Article)

WOW!  Warren falsely claimed that Lighthouse Trails hacked into his servers and had them investigated!  Wow.... 

That's Low! 

[Mike 99]

I have noticed that if I say anything about RW,,, right away I get looked at and told that I am crazy!!!
You are on the I-Net to much, don't believe anything you read on the I-Net!!!

From my Christian friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HUH!!!!!!

No way, right??

Yes Way!!!!!!

Talk about being deceived!!!!!

I tried to do his book PD in '04 but realized that it was a bunch of bunk then.

I do know that there are some that have blinders on and can't be reached

Peace

Mike

[Barry]

I tried to do his book PD in '04 but realized that it was a bunch of bunk then.

I do know that there are some that have blinders on and can't be reached

Peace

Mike

I was given PD Life when it first came out as a gift and also couldn't get into it. Didn't know why at the time because I usually stick with a book until its end. Warren just didn't seem to be saying the right things.

It's pretty frustrating and sad that so many millions of people are purchasing and buying into his garbage.

But God was looking after you in '04, bro. How great is that?!?

[Mike 99]

But God was looking after you in '04, bro. How great is that?!?

I know someone that says he is a watchman,,,,,, that has bought into RW, and doesn't get it?

i know that the Lord has protected me and my wife over the years, from all the bad stuff. But we are 'on the outside looking in' as it where.
That is why I feel like I have found a great fellowship on this board.

Peace
Mike

[Pete]

I tried PDL about 4 years ago, too...  Read a few chapters and never could get into it.  Picked it up a second time but could not see what all the fuss was about...  Sounded too much like the self-help books I'd left behind after leaving the sales world... 

Later, I too surmised it was god holding me back on that one.  praise Him!

peace,

Pete

[bygrace]

I remember when the church we were attending started the PD campaign...I could not even make myself read it

It was so disturbing to my spirit.

I had the SAME reaction though, friends said oh you can't believe what you read on the net....

I didn't even have to go to the net about it before I knew it was a crock.

Those friends are still there...and they are all about living as close to the world as possible and still being called Christian.

 

[chatty-kathi]

The following is reorganized into three parts, with four posts, from a series of posts I made that shows the clear connection between Rick Warren, the NAR, and Joel’s Army (thread http://www.worldofprophec...dex.php/topic,5110.0.html ).  A paragraph has been added, with a new link, after Rick Warren’s PILOT program.

Here is John Wimber’s connection to Joel’s Army.  (Emphasis added)

Out of a small town in Saskatchewan, a Pentecostal preacher named William Branham spearheaded a 1948 revival in which he claimed that his followers lived in a new biblical time of "Latter Rain."

The most sinless and ardent of his flock would be called "Manifest Sons of God." By the next year, the movement was so strong — and seemed so subversive to some — that the Assemblies of God banned it as a heretic cult. But Branham remained a controversial figure with a loyal following; many of his followers believed him to be the end-times prophet Elijah.

Branham was killed in a car accident in 1965, but his Manifest Sons of God movement, the direct predecessor of Joel's Army, lived on within a cluster of hyper-charismatic churches. In the 1980s, Branham's teachings took on new life at the Kansas City Fellowship (KCF), a group of popular self-styled apostles and prophets who used the Missouri church as a launching pad for national careers promoting outright Joel's Army theology.    Ernie Gruen, a local pastor who initially promoted and gave citywide credibility to KCF pastors in the early 1980s, cut his connections in 1990. Concerned about KCF's plans to push its teachings worldwide, Gruen published a 132-page insider's account, based on taped sermons and conversations and interviews with parents who had enrolled their kids in KCF's Dominion school.

According to Gruen's report, students at the school were taught that they were a "super-race" of the "elected seed" of all the best bloodlines of all generations — foreknown, predestined, and hand-selected from billions of others to be part of the "end-time Omega generation."

The Kansas City Fellowship remains in operation and has served as a farm team for many of the all-stars of the Joel's Army movement. Those larger-than-life figures include John Wimber, the founder of a California megachurch, The Vineyard, who, before his death in 1997, proclaimed that Joel's Army would not only conquer the earth but defeat death itself.

...As Wimber, the late founder of The Vineyard, put it in one of his most famous and fiery sermons, one that is still frequently cited by Joel's Army followers: "Those in this army will have His kind of power. … Anyone who wants to harm them must die."

[chatty-kathi]

Here is the connection between TheCall DC, Promise Keepers, Rick Warren, and Joel’s Army.
 

TheCall is patriotic dominionism.  Lou Engle founded The Call based on the Joel's Army visions that KCF "prophet" Bob Jones (not to be confused with Bob Jones III of Bob Jones University) received while at KCF. Mike Bickle, another KCF member, stayed in Kansas City to form the International House of Prayer.

   
Lou Engle’s envisioned “raising up a corresponding youth movement after he was impacted by The Promise Keeper’s gathering of a million men on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. in 1997.”  In recruiting volunteers for his events, "Engle repeatedly cites the prophetic vision of the prophet Joel", spiritualizing the locusts into an army of men.
     

Lou Engle’s advisory board includes Coach Bill McCartney (founder of Promise Keepers).
 
Kim Clement previously said that the true warriors will be more than a million gathered at the Capitol who will sway justice.     

Paul Cain, a false prophet in the NAR, has said that as charismatics unite with other faiths, an army will come, Joel’s Army.  He said this army is now forming and will graduate into the stadiums.  Promise Keeper Founder Bill McCartney has said, “We have a great army that we are assembling.  The leadership is divided and needs to be impacted to lead this army”.  Recognizing this kindred spirit, Paul Cain said, “Who would think there would be a group like Promise Keepers who’d already be setting the stage and filling stadiums with tens of thousands of people”…

Previously in 1996, Paul Cain said, "Joel's Army [is] now in training. . . . I believe one day soon Joel's Army will be in training ...until it graduates into the stadium.”

Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church promotes Promise Keeper’s, receiving personal training from Promise Keeper’s, from the link http://legacy.pastors.com...t/article.asp?ArtID=11193 .
 
Saddleback Church graduated into Angel Stadium, where Rick Warren made the announcement about The P.E.A.C.E. Plan.  It was at Angel Stadium that Rick Warren said, "I'm looking at a stadium full of people who are telling God they will do whatever it takes to establish God's Kingdom on earth as it is in heaven."  Rick Warren is mobilizing an army to accomplish this.  On Rick Warren’s website, he says, “The vision of  P.E.A.C.E. is for every follower of Jesus Christ to be mobilized for the global glory of God”.  Warren plans to have “10 million churches with a hundred million small groups mobilizing a billion disciples”. 

False prophet in the NAR, Bob Jones, has said that 300,000 leaders were being enlisted to lead one billion converts in the earth. 

Joel's Army followers believe that once democratic institutions are overthrown, their hierarchy of apostles and prophets will rule over the earth, with one church per city.

At Angel Stadium, Rick Warren said “If Jesus Christ does not come back a thousand years from today, there will be no organizations, or government…there will be a church.”

[chatty-kathi]

Here is the connection between C. Peter Wagner, John Wimber, and Rick Warren.

C. Peter Wagner was Rick Warren’s Professor at Fuller Seminary, where he taught Warren about spiritual mapping.  In 1993, Warren wrote his doctoral thesis on the church growth movement, the basis for his book, “The Purpose Driven Church”, on which he lists C. Peter Wagner as his mentor, which can be viewed at http://www.deceptioninthe...urch.com/addendumNAR.html . 

From this link, http://www.deceptioninthe...rch.com/wagnerquotes.html we read:

In 1997, Peter Wagner’s Breaking Strongholds in Your City was published, and also The Twilight Labyrinth by George Otis. In the latter, insight into the spiritual darkness in cities is given, as well as methods to map and confront the powers of darkness. ... From 1991 to 1999, Dr. Wagner taught spiritual mapping as a critical element for effective missions in his MC551 course at Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Mission.

Approximately 800-900 pastors, ministry leaders, and lay persons received the fundamentals of spiritual mapping through Fuller courses. (George Otis and his Fallacious Teachings, Johan Malan, 2001, http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/otis.html)

"One of our adjunct professors, John Wimber, who is a pastor of Vineyard Christian Fellowship of Yorba Linda, California, came to us recently with a suggestion that we offer a course in Signs, Wonders and Church Growth.  I agreed to cosponsor the course with him, and early in 1982 we experimented with it." (On The Crest Of The Wave, C. Peter Wagner, 1983, pg. 131-132

In the book, "The Third Wave of the Spirit”, by C. Peter Wagner, page 25, we read, “God began doing signs and wonders through John Wimber and the people in his church that I previously had thought could only be done through Pentecostals”.  John Wimber became an associate professor at Fuller Seminary.  On page 24, we read, "Because I (Wagner) trusted John, I never doubted that what was happening at Vineyard Christian Fellowship was authentic New Testament Christianity.  The upshot:  I teamed up with John to offer a new course in Fuller Seminary, MC510, first called “Signs, Wonders and Church Growth,”  later renamed “The Miraculous and Church Growth”.

From this link http://www.deceptioninthe...rch.com/warrenquotes.html we read
that Warren spoke at a Schuller event with Wimber, Hybels and others:

Listed faculty for The Robert Schuller Institute for Successful Church Leadership, Jan.27-30, at Crystal Cathedral campus included: Schuller, John Wimber (Vineyard "signs and wonders" guru), Bill Hybels, Charles Blake (Church of God),Walt Kallestad, John Maxwell, and Rick Warren. Ken Medema was at piano (9/16 CT). Hybels, Wimber, and David Cho were 1994 speakers. Tony Campolo and Jack Hayford were listed as 1995 speakers.

It’s significant that Warren changed the “P” [to Promote Reconciliation]. In his original PEACE plan, P stood for “Plant churches”. Presumably, that didn’t go over too well with some of Warren’s prospective partners in global development.

What it didn’t do is honestly represent what Warren was trying to accomplish.  He now feels it’s safe to reflect his true mission.  From another post I made about this, we read that this is actually about identificational repentance:

From this link, http://herescope.blogspot...est-p-reconciliation.html we read, emphasis added:   

We noted that C. Peter Wagner has cited this new doctrine as one of the key "New Spiritual Weapons" for advancing the Kingdom of God on earth. In short, "reconciliation" has to do with apologizing for the sins of your ancestors. But it also has a great deal to do with "peace."

... The focus shifts from Christ to reconciling relationships between "at-odds" groups of people.

Brian McLaren shows us the connection to Dominionism:

"What is this set of reconciled relationships other than the kingdom of God? Paul strikes the same theme in Ephesians 1:9-10: 'God made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.' That unity--that bringing together under one head--is yet another translation of the kingdom of God. . . .

"Like Jesus, then, Paul has a secret message--a message that is both concealed and revealed. It is a message of reconciliation and unification, just as a kingdom brings people together under one king." (p. 100)

Here is further indication that Rick Warren was among the 800-900 lay persons who took spiritual mapping courses from C. Peter Wagner, who taught this as a critical element for effective missions.  Rick Warren wrote his doctoral thesis in 1993, on which he listed C. Peter Wagner as his mentor.  Emphasis added below.   

On March 7, 2008, John Belt of the NAR said:

"We are now in a season when many promised lands have been surveyed. God's agents/spies have gone in.

In C. Peter Wagner’s book, “Engaging the Enemy: How to Fight and Defeat Territorial Spirits”, he says in reference to breaking territorial dominion, that if demons occupy a neighborhood, then a “Prayer Walk” is required. Spiritual Mapping is the process of gathering information regarding a region or a people in order to determine the identity and function of the territorial ruler, which is the process of discovering the exact location of the demon’s control and domain. This data is then used in intercession and spiritual warfare. Wagner says, “Spying out the land is essential when warring for a city…Christians should walk or drive every major freeway, avenue and road of their cities, praying and coming against demonic strongholds over every neighborhood”…

Note the similarity in the above with Rick Warren’s P.I.L.O.T. program below, which can be seen at http://www.saddlebackfami...ace/expert_advice.asp?id= 7639.

P-ray on site with insight. Prayer-walking will give your small group a vision to see the people with spiritual eyes.

I-nvestigate the people group. Understanding the people is the beginning to reaching them with the Gospel. Assessment forms are provided to assist you in collecting information about your people group.

L-ook for the evil giants.  How are the five global evil giants manifested? What are the obstacles that have prevented the Gospel from being presented and received?

O-pen talks with the person of P.E.A.C.E…

T-est a P.E.A.C.E. kit…

This initial research work will help your small group prepare to attack the evil giants more effectively on future trips…Your team will have the opportunity to download your research findings on the unengaged people group into a global information system that Saddleback Church is developing to ultimately serve churches everywhere to more effectively reach this unengaged people group”.

Another way of putting this is it appears that Warren’s PILOT program is C. Peter Wagner’s spiritual mapping. Wagner says prayer walking is done to determine the location of the demon’s control and domain, which Rick Warren calls giving the group a vision to see the people with “spiritual eyes”. Wagner uses the data for “intercession and spiritual warfare”, Warren provides assessment forms to collect information. Wagner says to spy out the land, Warren says look for the five global evil giants. What is done with this accumulated information?

From this link, http://www.ocregister.com.../abox/article_1336884.php we read:

Today, Saddleback's information technology department has morphed into a multimillion-dollar "research and development department of Christianity," says Warren (paraphrasing management guru Peter Drucker).

Case in point: Saddleback's new PEACE "platform," a Web site built upon original software written by the church's "pastor" of technology, Eric Busby, and about two dozen engineers and experts around the world.

Busby wants the PEACE platform to be a full-service Web site to which any church group anywhere in the world can connect and be matched not only with a destination in which to do missionary work, but with training appropriate to the mission.

That means, Busby says, writing scalable software capable of allowing the Web site to expand as thousands – potentially tens of thousands – of churches sign on. Busby says the Saddleback PEACE site is designed to grow to the size of leading Web sites, such as eBay.

Already, the platform's electronic brain – the 8-foot racks of hundreds of servers needed to store the site's growing database (14,000 articles in English alone) – is housed in a warehouse-sized, maximum-security "Tier-1" Internet data center in Irvine.

Such centers exist in several dozen locations around the world to host the electronic information of the world's largest companies, which explains the armed guards, biometric palm scanners and steel doors that guard the facility, Busby says.

The Christian Post reported the launch of the P.E.A.C.E. Coalition:   

Saddleback Church will also provide free software – including a social networking system and global missions database – to facilitate communication between P.E.A.C.E. Coalition members.

The launch of the Coalition will coincide with the beta phase of the plan, known as P.E.A.C.E. 2.0. For the past four years, more than 7,700 Saddleback Church members have traveled in over 1,000 teams to 68 countries to test the initial phase of the P.E.A.C.E. Plan. Their reports and data have been compiled to map out the second phase.

Rick Warren calls the evil demons, “evil giants”.  From the same link as his P.I.L.O.T. program, he said, 

"…Your church friends will help you to understand the cultural context so that you can begin assessing the evil giants in the area.

"Our goal will be to enlist 'one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God,' who will permanently change the face of international missions to take on these five ‘global giants’ for which the church can become the ultimate distribution and change agent to overcome Spiritual Emptiness, Self-serving Leadership, Poverty, Disease and ignorance."

In Wagner’s 1999 book, "Churchquake:  How the New Apostolic Reformation is Shaking up the Church as We Know it”, we find Peter Wagner identifying both Hybels and Warren as pastors of new apostolic churches:

“Bill Hybels, new apostolic pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, Barrington, Illinois, and a longtime friend of Robert Schuller, agrees that pastors have the responsibility of determining the purpose of each corporate gathering” ( pg. 179).

"New apostolic churches, like Rick Warren’s, turn this (leadership and ministry) around 180 degrees, as he explains in his best-seller, “The Purpose Driven Church” (pg. 213)